chim↑pom

to gather six chim↑pom members all at once is a task in itself. after a month of calls, email exchange and one failed attempt, the meeting is set—saturday, 2pm in front of the hachiko. it's a gray, rainy and unseasonably cold day. group members arrive one by one, sporting at least three adidas items each. four members in total out of six—group's leader ryuta ushiro, yasutaka hayashi, masataka okada, motomu inaoka and tamura, our mutual friend explicitly requested by ryuta as a translator for the interview. ellie, group's most celebrated and only female member, and toshinori mizuno are absent. after half an hour scouting for a suitable spot, wet and cold, we settle in a noisy chain coffee shop. tamura tests his recording device, curiously named polaroid—ready.

ok, let's start from the beginning. (to ushiro) you began as mc, right?

yasutaka hayashi: rapper.
ryuta ushiro: i didn't rap. it's... how can i call it?

tamura: singer?

ru: no way!
yh: agitator?
ru: that's it, mc agitator!

and you hayashi?

yh: a dj, but we have only performed three times. (laugh)

the two of you started chim↑pom.

ru: let's say it was ellie. we just wanted to make something together with her.

so, basically you just wanted to get together with ellie, no artistic ambitions.

ru: well, all of us liked art... i couldn't predict how we would advance in the beginning, could've been art just as well. (laugh)

you didn't have a model or a concept in the beginning.

ru: nothing specific, we just wanted to make something exciting and fresh by bringing a gal into art. like boredoms, something you've never seen. there was a semi-concept—to discover what chim↑pom is along the way.

who came up with the name?

ru: ellie.

did you intend to shock people [chim↑pom sounds like a “prick” in japanese]?

ru: no, no concept there. we just liked the sound of it. (laugh)

what was the first artwork that qualifies as chim↑pom?

ru: “elligero” [a video of ellie vomiting pink liquid].

where do you think chim↑pom fit within the japanese art scene?

ru: japanese art scene? you can't talk about it without chim↑pom... so whether we fit it or not...
yh: gotta fit.
ru: you mean, the art scene should fit us, right?
yh: you got it!
ru: although the japanese art scene has been upgraded by chim↑pom it is still behind. we're more interested in placing ourselves in the increasingly challenging situations than expanding the scene's capacity. what we really enjoy is the challenge of overcoming the limitations we face starting a new project. how far can we push it? like turning around, where we had to find a relevant way to display street art within museum's walls.

how does the japanese art scene compare to the west?

ru: very poor, almost crap (laugh). i write about it in my book, “geijutsu jikkohan” [art perpetrator], it's coming out this summer.

what do you feel is lacking?

ru: a lot, if i name problems one by one the list will never end. in short, it would be impossible for the japanese art scene to achieve so-called “international standard.” we may be able to turn its inferiority into the energy source instead. this is what i strongly felt in korea while participating in asia art award. it was very westernized, made from the beginning with the “western perspective” in mind. the “standard” which takashi murakami tries to get a hold on. i've read a blog that compares the situation to upstream/downstream of the river, arguing that everything coming from the west is the upstream and it's easy to catch things on the current towards the downstream, but it's hard to bring something from the downstream up. i find it to be true, murakami had a very hard time doing it and succeeded. art should be more like an ocean—collecting from many sources, drifting around the world, delivering to each specific location in a vernacular way. if japan tries to adapt itself to the given “western standard” it'll end up reproducing the same upstream/downstream scenario, which doesn't make any sense.
yh: dare i say that even if the japanese art scene is behind from the western perspective it has some good aspects...
ru: so what?
yh: what?! i just wanted to simplify, make it easier to understand...
ru: how shallow. (laugh)
masataka okada: none of the japanese have art as a backbone. we have a variety of things that excite us just as much, like...
yh: hey, that's what i said!
mo: ...music bands and stuff.
yh: that's what i said! (big laugh)

do you feel a change in people's attitude towards art since you started chim↑pom?

yh: let me answer! i feel people who indulged themselves only with an entertainment take us more seriously after the earthquake, but chim↑pom hasn't changed.

although you said you haven't changed, your works seem to have changed.

ru: basic attitude, that we always try to come up with something new and exciting, remains unchanged.

it must be difficult for you in the current marketplace as you don't seem to be concerned with producing “salable” works.

ru: ask fujiki-san [the head of mujin-to production representing chim↑pom]! i think the gallery/museum model will change drastically in a few decades. the traditional way of showing works and facilitating people how to think about art will remain as it is, but different kinds of art, like outdoor works at documenta, must become far more common in the future. museums must adapt to be capable of coordinating such projects not only inside their spaces but also at the nearby sites and online, acting as the “centre”. like mori, a museum woven into the urban fabric of roppongi. it's difficult to sell outdoor or online works right now, but once the system changes it'll be easier to provide support to the works and activities like ours. that should be museum's mission in the future.

did you consider establishing your own platform, like a broadcast channel, a website, or a newspaper?

ru: of course, as soon as we can afford it.

what inspires you?

mo: tv. (big laugh) …almost brainwashed by it. i love tv, not even the content, i like its… presence. favorite programs? cooking.
yh: music and women.

favorite group?

yh: kinniku shojo tai.
ru: what type of women?
yh: with big tits.
motomu inaoka: tezuka osamu.
ru: kamuiden [it became a bible for leftist activists through 1960s and 70s, especially among students]. my father had given it to me as a christmas present.

what does each of you contribute to the group?

mo: i have no special skills…
ru: he’s our idea man.
mo: receiving them straight from the tokyo tower.
yh: i’m in charge of editing and design.
mi: sculptor?
ru: and performer, rather extreme…
mi: like burning [he burnt himself during chim↑pom’s debut performance, “chim↑pom’s ike ike action”, organized by a.r.t.]?
ru: and starving [inaoka starved himself for their “making of the sokushinbutsu” piece]! (laugh)
mi: it’s not my speciality.
ru: it is!

ryuta?

ru: i’m the leader. hey! it’s hard to manage this group! you can be a prime minister once get a hang of them!

two absent members?

ru: mizuno, his contribution is…
mo: submiting his body. he devotes his body to us.

what about ellie?

ru: charisma.
mo: not only of chim↑pom, the whole japanese nation.

what does she contribute to the group?

ru: she embodies chim↑pom itself. she is a living art.

is everyone comfortable staying in ellie’s shadow?

ru: we don’t think of ellie as the face, we’re one body.

how did the relations within the group change over the years?

ru: well… mizuno got worse.
mo: more and more. we all have grown up, but not him.
ru: yes, we all grow up, he grows down!

do you feel connection with anyone outside of chim↑pom?

ru: i like people who has a broader view of the local matters, who can understand that we’re addressing international issues through our works. not those who just conclude “ok, it’s japanese.”
mi: wherever we go we find people like us, trying to do inspiring works beyond their local scene. if we join our efforts it may as well be a new way forward.

what is your take on globalization?

ru: there are definitely downsides, but it doesn’t concern us that much. we live in japan and do what we should be doing here, same goes to the other countries. we prefer focusing on the positive aspects, but negative ones may be quite inspirational also and often become a part of our works.

t: i want to ask you about “life and death” [chim↑pom’s main theme according to their website profile].

ru: i don’t even know who wrote it!

t: i think life and death is always present in your works.

ru: oh yes, no half-measures. when i think of something exciting i always end up with “life and death,” “past and present”… people feel thrilled when the opposites join. this uncertainty, or vulnerability is the very essence of art. we want to express the joy of life, but if we only show the joy it’d be very one-sided, which is very superficial, isn’t it? life is directly linked with death. they are two extremes, but also come in a pair. we can’t produce a thrill unless we walk along a tightrope between two extremes.

what did you feel when you go to fukushima?

ru: that, i don’t want to experience again! never. ever! the feeling we had on the way to the nuclear power plant to raise the flag… that was not a “thrill.” it was fear… we were simply scared. just wanted to finish and leave as soon as possible.

t: is it true you said once that was the only project you didn’t enjoy?

ru: absolutely! no kidding, can’t enjoy such a thing at all.

do you think japanese have changed after fukushima?

ru: yes. unconsciously, everyone has changed. this whole nuclear crisis is a shock and must remain in the unconsciousness. it will reemerge when the moment comes and those who are young now will be faced with the decision. it’ll motivate and change them. not so sure about the older generation…

i often hear “i like chim↑pom, but…” “level 7 feat. myth of tomorrow” for example, it became an instant hit but once people found out it was you who painted a panel next to the mural some felt disappointed.

ru: i enjoy the “but” part, no fun without it. i much prefer it to “love it!” or “great!” “but” makes it real. it connects us. i like to act along “yes, but…”

do you do it consciously?

ru: no, it’s unintentional! (laugh)

shock, is it vital to your work?

ru: it’s not catchy unless there is an unexpected element of shock. momentum is also very important.

so the original energy is more important than the outcome.

ru: that’s it! speaking of art, the term “action” was first translated into japanese art as “koui” [action, or performance], but chim↑pom has now come to embody “koudou” [social, politically oriented activity]. as “koui” has been dominant in japanese art, people disapprove of our “activity,” like “it’s a journalism!” thus not art.

you’re in your early thirties, do you feel like the time is running out? family and kids on the horizon…

ru: my family has already given up on me. (laugh)
yh: let me clarify—this is not a chim↑pom’s problem, but ours as individuals.
mo: if it wasn’t for chim↑pom we wouldn’t even be here.
yh: chim↑pom makes us better!
ru: finally, you said something meaningful hayashi! (big laugh)

what’s most exciting in japan now?

ru: potential eruption of mt. fuji! i saw a special tv program about it, looks very realistic. (everyone jumps in the discussion about the latest rumors)
ru: more quakes… we’re in danger. if we restart nuclear power plants… what the hell is going to happen next?!

that’s exciting?!

ru: yes, but…

scary?

ru: yes. (laugh)

are you afraid of dying?

ru: sure! mo: i don’t want to suffer.
mi: death is inevitable.
mo: it’s ok if i die watching tv.
mi: i want to survive.
ru: i’m not ready to die yet.

if you were dismembered and reassembled into one body, who’d be what part?

ru: it must be ellie! ellie’s body with ellie’s heart! others—just a small presence. (laugh)

like…

ru: occupy a little spot in her brain! me and okada will help her with ideas, hayashi may improve her editing skills…

do you guys agree with that?

all (nodding at once): ellie-chan.
ru: it only makes sense for ellie to survive, doesn’t it?
yh: i say ellie will survive anyway, only her!
ru: (making a face) i guess mizuno is more likely to survive… like a roach. i want ellie to prevent eruption of mt. fuji. (laugh)
i think japan now is in a very unique situation. of course all countries have faced various difficulties, but mostly social and political, say, man-made issues. the situation we’re facing now is very different from john and yoko’s “stop the war!” because we’re dealing with nature here. we have to unite and show a different form of love.

future ambitions?

ru: continue in the same vein. if we’ll be just praised for the “effort” we’ve made, like “you did it!” it won’t be a sufficient contribution to the following generation. we must succeed, this is very important.

what do you mean by “succeed”?

ru: chim↑pom will endure and become a part of art history.
(silence)
did i say anything wrong? anyway, what we’re now interested in, which happens to be a post-3.11 talk, is that japanese artists seem to become more avant-garde. they’re becoming more and more aware of the body, heading towards direct actions rather than paintings. it’s similar to traditional “angura” [japanese underground theatre/body-art movement], which is rather gloomy, but also more appealing to the general public while still being avant-garde. i expect this trend to grow even stronger with the next generations, and chim↑pom to become a significant model for it.

we catch a taxi and head to watari-um, which hosts weekly events in addition to “turning around” exhibition curated by chim↑pom. at the cafe downstairs we catch up with the group’s embodiment ellie. her hair dyed blue, she appears to be adidas-less.

t: what inspires you?

e: inspires ellie [she refers to herself as ellie]? must be chim↑pom.

what’s most exciting in japan now?

e: (eating cake) me.

you?

e: (pointing at herself) me.

what is your contribution to the group?

e: hey hayashi! can i say my presence itself? hayashi nods.

interview: andrey bold, tamura
portrait: andrey bold
2012.06.23